April 20, 2018, 03:06:19 PM
HDBitchin, a Harley Davidson Forum

Author Topic: 2014 Rushmore Warning LEDs not Illuminating  (Read 704 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

March 20, 2018, 02:37:04 AM
Read 704 times
Offline

frankn


Hi Guys, I own a 2014 FLHXS and have the following problem. The ABS light and the red overheat light is totally dead. No light, no flashing, they are always dark. I checked the DTC, and the ABS does not even show up during the procedure. And yes, it is an ABS version, it has the ABS unit behind the right cover as well as the wheel sensors. Any idea? Thanks for any help.

March 20, 2018, 06:44:50 AM
Reply #1
Offline

HDBitchin

Administrator
@frankn

Welcome to the forum!

Sounds like the internal LED bulbs for those two warning lights have gone bad. You might try to see if the connector to the gauge is not making firm contact but it is likely that the gauge needs replacing or a repair.

With the introduction of ECMs in these motorcycles the dedicated wiring that we once had to light warning lamps is now gone. It used to be that we had discrete grounds in the old days that turned on warning lamps, not anymore.

These newer motorcycles have gauges that run on a digital 2 wire bus so when you look at the wiring you won't see a dedicated wire for the ABS, 6th gear indication lamp or speed indication pointer. Besides the power and ground wires everything that lights ups (warning lamps) or moves in that gauge is driven off of a 2 wire data bus that comes from the ECM. Data from the ECM tells the pointer to move and warning lights to turn "on or off" based on ECM calculations. Maybe your gauge has a loose connector or is failing.

I know that there is a company that advertises gauge backlight color changes. Let me dig them up and see if they also repair the HD gauges.
HDBitchin aka Tank 
AMA Member- Click Here to Join
A Business Member of ABATE of AZ
Member of the Motorcycle Riders Foundation

March 20, 2018, 06:59:47 AM
Reply #2
Offline

frankn


Thank you for the answer. When I wrote ABS does not showed up during the diagnostic procedure, I meant, the ABS was completely missing. ECM, BCM, SPDO were checked, ABS should come after that, but didn't - RAD showed up.

March 20, 2018, 02:54:23 PM
Reply #3
Offline

HDBitchin

Administrator
@frankn

So it is not just warning lamps (LEDs) that are not illuminating but also the ABS module is not testing or reading out in the diagnostics mode.

These 3 things are your issue...

1) During the diagnostic trouble code (DTC) readout on the odometer the ABS module is not showing up for readout.

2) Your ABS warning light never comes on and flashes on startup.

3) Your red “overheat” which I might call your “Check Engine Light” (also called the CEL) is not showing up during the lamp test at startup.

If that is what is being seen I would think something is unplugged or not plugged in properly. A poor connection at ECM or the ABS unit or both might be the issue.

Do you have any DTCs that are being shown when doing the diagnostics?

Have you looked if you might have a blown fuse that powers the ABS?

Does the motorcycle run normally?
HDBitchin aka Tank 
AMA Member- Click Here to Join
A Business Member of ABATE of AZ
Member of the Motorcycle Riders Foundation


March 20, 2018, 03:21:02 PM
Reply #4
Offline

frankn


@frankn

So it is not just warning lamps (LEDs) that are not illuminating but also the ABS module is not testing or reading out in the diagnostics mode.

These 3 things are your issue...

1) During the diagnostic trouble code (DTC) readout on the odometer the ABS module is not showing up for readout.

2) Your ABS warning light never comes on and flashes on startup.

3) Your red “overheat” which I might call your “Check Engine Light” (also called the CEL) is not showing up during the lamp test at startup.

If that is what is being seen I would think something is unplugged or not plugged in properly. A poor connection at ECM or the ABS unit or both might be the issue.

Do you have any DTCs that are being shown when doing the diagnostics?

Have you looked if you might have a blown fuse that powers the ABS?

Does the motorcycle run normally?
You described it perfectly. Just an addition. I  checked all the connections, disconnected and connected again. Everything seems to be fine. In case of disconnected ABS I got an error which means _ no communication with ABS. I deleted the error message and run the test again with ABS connected. Without errors. I got the bike a few days ago used, rode just a few miles. It runs very well, I am not sure whether abs works or not, it is a quite cold here for riding, but the coupled brakes do their job.

Odoslané z FRD-L09 pomocou Tapatalku


March 20, 2018, 03:47:08 PM
Reply #5
Offline

HDBitchin

Administrator
I believe the ECM is programmed to know that the bike is ABS equipped and would likely keep logging the “No Communication with ABS”. That DTC is a high level fail message from the ECM that expects an ABS system but does not see it. Basically the ECM is saying that the ABS is not reporting in and it is expected to from the known configuration that the ECM has. Real issues with the ABS operation wouldn’t show up in the diagnostics if the ABS was not powered. The fact that the ABS module is not showing up in the diagnostics might mean it is not getting power. Have you looked for the ABS fuse? Is it good?
HDBitchin aka Tank 
AMA Member- Click Here to Join
A Business Member of ABATE of AZ
Member of the Motorcycle Riders Foundation

March 21, 2018, 10:20:41 AM
Reply #6
Offline

WantMore

Supporting Member
@frankn

I think like Tank suggested a check of the ABS fuse is an important next step.

As I understand this is a recent new purchase for you of a used motorcycle. I am thinking that maybe the previous owner had issues with the ABS and they pulled the fuse so that it would not show the failures when you purchased it.

The ABS does a power up test that you can read about in the owner’s manual. The ABS light should flash after start up and continue to flash until the motorcycle rolls a few feet. During that roll the ABS sensors in the wheel are tested and if they are sensed and report in properly the flashing ABS light will extinguish. I wonder is the previous owner had a problem that they did not address and in order to sell the bike they pulled the ABS fuse.
Smoke em if you got em

March 21, 2018, 11:33:08 AM
Reply #7
Offline

frankn


That's I was thinking about the situation. Some issue with ABS in the past. But... ABS does not have dedicated fuse in this bike and it is not possible to simply disconnect the control lights. Connecting back ABS, the U0121 - which means "no info from ABS" disappeard. And the most important thing - today morning, despite of the pretty cold weather I went out with the bike, it  rides like a dream. I did a few really hard brakings and both ABS and the linked brakes work perfectly. I am more and more confused.....


March 21, 2018, 02:24:19 PM
Reply #8
Offline

HDBitchin

Administrator
@frankn

The DTC U0121 is what needs to be addressed. From your ride you are believing that the ABS and Linked braking are working and if that is true then it would then have to be the ABS ECU is simply just not communicating with the ECM which is confirmed by the logging of U0121 and the fact that the ECM can’t display the diagnostics for the ABS.

So we have a couple possibilities. Bad wiring between the ECM and the ABS ECU or we have a bad ABS ECU itself which either could cause the logging of the U0121 in the ECM DTC readout.

Bad Wiring - It is possible that U0121 is being caused by bad wiring from the ABS ECU and the CAN Bus data is not getting to the motorcycle’s ECM. Resulting in the missing ABS diagnostics readout.

Bad ABS ECU CAN Buss Output- It is another possibility that ABS ECU is internally bad and is not outputting data to the ECM on the ABS ECU status and that is why the ABS portion of DTC readout is not working for the diagnostics.

Looking at a 2015 Touring manual I can confirm that it has no dedicated ABS fuse. The ABS ECU gets power from the Main 50 amp fuse.

The wiring at the ABS ECU is as follows:

Pin 1 - Battery Power (from Main 50 amp fuse)
Pin 9 - Ground
Pin 10 - CAN Bus Low (wired to ECM)
Pin 14 - Rear WSS Low
Pin 15 - Front WSS High
Pin 17 - Battery Power Solenoid (in common with Pin 1)
Pin 18 - CAN Bus High (wired to ECM)
Pin 23 - Rear WSS High
Pin 24 - Front WSS Low
Pin 26 - Ground (ECU)

Since you feel that the ABS is working from your recent ride I feel that the issue is the ECM diagnostics are cut off from the working ABS system and the CAN Bus wiring is bad or data being sent is NCD (No Computed Data) on that output.
HDBitchin aka Tank 
AMA Member- Click Here to Join
A Business Member of ABATE of AZ
Member of the Motorcycle Riders Foundation

March 23, 2018, 09:41:50 AM
Reply #9
Offline

HDBitchin

Administrator
@frankn

The attached picture (DTC U0121 Probable Causes) confirms our discussion here that you either have a CAN Bus issue or a power problem to the ABS ECU. The power and grounds at the ABS ECU and the CAN Bus wiring at the ABS ECU are all suspect.
HDBitchin aka Tank 
AMA Member- Click Here to Join
A Business Member of ABATE of AZ
Member of the Motorcycle Riders Foundation

March 24, 2018, 08:40:48 PM
Reply #10
Offline

bc45

Global Moderator
You described it perfectly. Just an addition. I  checked all the connections, disconnected and connected again. Everything seems to be fine. In case of disconnected ABS I got an error which means _ no communication with ABS. I deleted the error message and run the test again with ABS connected. Without errors. I got the bike a few days ago used, rode just a few miles. It runs very well, I am not sure whether abs works or not, it is a quite cold here for riding, but the coupled brakes do their job.

Odoslané z FRD-L09 pomocou Tapatalku

That's I was thinking about the situation. Some issue with ABS in the past. But... ABS does not have dedicated fuse in this bike and it is not possible to simply disconnect the control lights. Connecting back ABS, the U0121 - which means "no info from ABS" disappeard. And the most important thing - today morning, despite of the pretty cold weather I went out with the bike, it  rides like a dream. I did a few really hard brakings and both ABS and the linked brakes work perfectly. I am more and more confused.....

so after you reconnected the ABS module no error code U0121 ? correct, the only problem is still no check enginge light and ABS light on at Key up ? correct?

March 25, 2018, 12:19:17 AM
Reply #11
Offline

frankn


so after you reconnected the ABS module no error code U0121 ? correct, the only problem is still no check enginge light and ABS light on at Key up ? correct?
The yellow engine check light is OK. The problem is the not flashing ABS light and also the red overheating light located above the ABS is not lighting at key up. In diagnostic mode the system does not see ABS, after ECM, BCM, SPDO comes the RAD check. And yes, after reconnecting ABS no more U0121 appears. I didn't have time for this last week, I am going to check the wiring more deeply next weekend.

Odoslané z FRD-L09 pomocou Tapatalku


March 25, 2018, 07:30:45 AM
Reply #12
Offline

bc45

Global Moderator
@frankn   I just went out to my 2016 FLHTK and turned the ignition on and the over temp light does not come on as a bulb check. I did not know it even had a over temp indicator.
The owners manual page 44 in my book does not sta te that it comes as a bulb check with Key on Engine off but does give the conditions that it will come on. All the indicators that do come on with KOEO the manual state that they do, So the over temp light not coming on with key up is a normal condition.

It seems the ABS module is working as you state it will do a ABS stop and when you unplugged the module it set an comunication  code in the ECM module or ABS module?

 

March 25, 2018, 07:40:20 AM
Reply #13
Offline

frankn


I noticed the red controll light in this video



check around 2:15

Odoslané z FRD-L09 pomocou Tapatalku

March 25, 2018, 07:42:08 AM
Reply #14
Offline

frankn


It seems the ABS module is working as you state it will do a ABS stop and when you unplugged the module it set an comunication  code in the ECM module or ABS module?

Yes, exactly

Odoslané z FRD-L09 pomocou Tapatalku



 



The Harley Davidson names and logos are Trademarks owned by Harley-Davidson, Inc. This site is not affiliated with Harley-Davidson.
All trademarks are the property of their respective owners and may be registered marks in some countries. There is no affiliation or endorsement claim, express or implied, made by their use.
All artwork in the HDBitchin logos including "Popeye" our Harley riding and forum surfing mascot is artwork that is © of HDBitchin
© HDBitchin, a HD Forum 2013 - 2018 All rights reserved.